and save america from the fiscal cliff. how does the president win this optics war, grover? >> well, it's all politics. he's not put a proposal on the table that makes any sense. when talk about plans a, b, and c, the republicans have passed plan a, the ryan bill, ryan budget and plan. that saves $6 trillion over the next decade. it reforms entitlements. it reforms taxes. doesn't raise them, reforms them without raising taxes on people. so that's a plan that's written down that's passed the house of representatives and has strong support among republicans in the senate. the alternative is nothing. >> we know that's not going to pass the senate and we also know the white house isn't going to sign that. move on. my contention is after -- >> allow me. >> work with me. it's an important question. let's say president obama says we're going off the fiscal cliff. we go off the cliff. tax cuts expire, sequestration, they kick it down the road. if president obama then says i'm going to put in tax cuts for anyone making under $250,000 a year. i'm going to call them obama tax cuts. wil